Of course the library at the WT's international headquarters (the USA branch) has a copy of every WT publication ever printed, tough perhaps the vast majority of the of the people at Bethel have access to that library.
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
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27
So where oh where did Judge Rutherford come up with JW theology?
by Terry inbits of unreported history that may be of casual interest… as to doctrinal origins.
sykes was one-of-a-kind in the pentecostal movement, but he was considered quite a maverick who went his own way with heretical teachings repugnant to the pentecostal faith.. joshua sykes’ congregation was integrated, unlike pastor russell’s public speeches/sermons where blacks and whites both could attend, but only in separate sections--sykes's members were sitting side by side in the pentecostal church.
this was considered dangerous and inflammatory at the time.. pentecostal preacher joshua sykes practiced racial and gender "integration" as early as 1908 -- having both african-american and female assistant preachers, staffers, and members.
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NASA: Humans Back to the Moon
by Gerard innasa plans return to moon by 2020
"this vision aims to return humans to the moon, and then to use it as a staging point for a manned mission to mars.
i wonder if jws will be required to canvas those areas too.
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Disillusioned JW
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/yeast-space-experiment-1.6711816 has an article called the following. "NASA shot yeast into space. The science could help protect astronauts, researchers say. Yeast has a similar genetic make-up as humans, and researchers at the University of British Columbia will now study how cosmic radiation impacted the samples to better understand how people could survive in space." It says the following.
'The ultimate end game is to find a way to protect astronauts — and potential members of future space colonies— from the same harmful rays.
"By 2030 I know NASA has plans for a permanent settlement on the moon," said Nislow, speaking to CBC's As It Happens Wednesday.
... Nislow said yeast and algae have about 70 per cent of the same genes as people, including the RAD51 gene that is essential for making a protein to repair DNA.
There is potential, said Nislow, that scientists could glean enough information from the samples to create a drug that would deliver extra RAD51 MRNA to people going to space and keep them safe.
"So we've genetically-equipped these astronauts without changing their DNA," he said, referring to COVID-19 vaccines as successful examples of MRNA delivery.
... When the Artemis 1 mission launched in November, Canada's Innovation Science and Industry Minister François-Philippe Champagne announced a Canadian astronaut will be on board Artemis II as part of a crew set to travel to the moon's orbit in 2024.
It will be the first time a Canadian will travel to deep space.'
The page at https://tech.hindustantimes.com/tech/news/artemis-iii-first-ever-manned-mission-to-moon-s-south-pole-step-by-step-details-by-nasa-71673683414343.html has details of the planned Artemis III mission to land humans onto the moon's south pole!
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27
So where oh where did Judge Rutherford come up with JW theology?
by Terry inbits of unreported history that may be of casual interest… as to doctrinal origins.
sykes was one-of-a-kind in the pentecostal movement, but he was considered quite a maverick who went his own way with heretical teachings repugnant to the pentecostal faith.. joshua sykes’ congregation was integrated, unlike pastor russell’s public speeches/sermons where blacks and whites both could attend, but only in separate sections--sykes's members were sitting side by side in the pentecostal church.
this was considered dangerous and inflammatory at the time.. pentecostal preacher joshua sykes practiced racial and gender "integration" as early as 1908 -- having both african-american and female assistant preachers, staffers, and members.
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Disillusioned JW
By the way, Rutherford's The Harp of God: Proof Conclusive that Millions now Living will never Die also uses the title "Lord" extensively, not just the name "Jehovah" extensively.
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So where oh where did Judge Rutherford come up with JW theology?
by Terry inbits of unreported history that may be of casual interest… as to doctrinal origins.
sykes was one-of-a-kind in the pentecostal movement, but he was considered quite a maverick who went his own way with heretical teachings repugnant to the pentecostal faith.. joshua sykes’ congregation was integrated, unlike pastor russell’s public speeches/sermons where blacks and whites both could attend, but only in separate sections--sykes's members were sitting side by side in the pentecostal church.
this was considered dangerous and inflammatory at the time.. pentecostal preacher joshua sykes practiced racial and gender "integration" as early as 1908 -- having both african-american and female assistant preachers, staffers, and members.
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Disillusioned JW
I am shocked to read the claim that all or even most or even some) of the books which claim to be authored by Rutherford were actually authored by Fred Franz! However the claim might explain why such a large number of books are in Rutherford's name. I would think from time to time how could one person (such as Rutherford) write so many books and booklets? I think that the Harp of God and Deliverance books are some of the best written books of those which are in Rutherford's name, and of those published by the WT. The vast majority of the doctrines in most of the chapters of the latter book seem to be the same as what the WT taught in 1995, but with some minor changes in some teachings. It would be a bit sad to me if I were to conclude that Rutherford didn't write those books.
One time while I reading parts of the Deliverance book (despite me being an atheist) I was so in awe of the reasoning (and facts presented in support of such), and so fond of the joyous message of the content about Christ already ruling and already uplifting human society (and of Christ speaking softly to individual Christians in their minds to instruct them and to direct them, invisibly from heaven), that for several minutes with intense emotion (holding back tears of joy and appreciation) I said out loud to myself "It is true! It is true! It is the truth!" After several minutes of that reaction, I came back to my senses. The book was published in the early 1920s and thus in the "Roaring 20s" (of economic boom and technological marvels) and thus people living back then in the USA, in the peace of that post "Great War" (World War I) period, could easily think that the world is getting much better. Jews were returning to Palestine. Science was producing major medical cures. Engineers were inventing amazing labor saving devices; radio shows were being broadcast. Airplanes were being flown. The Directors of the WT had been released prison (after having been in prison for about 3.5 years or so) and those associated with the WT and the International Bible Students began/resumed earnestly advertising the kingdom.
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Are the statistics out yet?
by slimboyfat inisn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?
or have they stopped publishing it?
did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?
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Disillusioned JW
Correction: In my prior post where I said "... in helping me to cease being homeless ..." I meant "... in helping people to cease being homeless ...". I am not homeless.
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169
Are the statistics out yet?
by slimboyfat inisn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?
or have they stopped publishing it?
did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?
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Disillusioned JW
There are Hispanic people (born outside of the USA, in a predominately Catholic country) at my place of work whose primary language is Spanish, who were formerly Catholic but who specifically say they are now "Christian". When I ask them their denomination they either say they don't know or they say it is simply "Christian". Many (not just the Hispanic ones) don't even know know the name of their specific congregation.
Furthermore, some of my coworkers might be going to a Baptist church without knowing it is Baptist. In response to my questioning a coworker (who came from an Asian country, I think it is a communist country), the coworker said she to me "I think it is Baptist" in regards to her church.
I have not inquired (or researched) any nondenominational church to find out if it was formed by a splitting up of another church. However, a person at one of the churches told me that people from multiple churches have switched to their church. His nondenominational Bible church seems to evangelize people from other churches and his its church sticks to basic teachings of the Bible. Many years ago when I visited the church to see what it is like I noticed there are lots of people there (including lots of people under age 40). Probably well over 200 were in attendance. They have a band which plays "praise" style worship. One day a week they serve very good dinners (though a sign asks for a donation to pay the cost of the meal) in a cafeteria line style. When I was there one time the sermon (in one of its points) specifically taught against atheism/philosophical naturalism. [A Catholic church I visited also specifically taught against atheism/philosophical naturalism.]
At a different Bible church which serves a free dinner (to anyone) one day a week, the person who founded the free meal service also founded a nonprofit to help the homeless (and he told me 100% of the donations they receive are distributed to various homeless charities which meet their criteria of effectiveness in helping me to cease being homeless). They used to also have a "Celebrate Recovery" program there after their Tuesday night worship service. They still have the midweek worship service and it is a "praise" style worship service. They have men's ministries and women's ministries. I was told they have men ministers and women ministers.
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169
Are the statistics out yet?
by slimboyfat inisn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?
or have they stopped publishing it?
did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?
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Disillusioned JW
joe134cd and slimboyfat, but if one can correctly claim it is "more a reshuffle, rather than actual growth" then the same thing could also correctly be said about the JWs, especially prior to 1975. Namely, a great many who became JWs, who were not raised as JWs, instead came from other Christian religions (according the language of the WT, they came out of Babylon the Great, primarily out of Christendom). The WT literature (since it quotes heavily form the Bible) is geared to people who read the Christian Bible (or at least think it is a good book). It is not geared to Muslims or some other non-Christian religion, nor is it much geared to the nonreligious. Whether most of the nondenominational members came from another church (whether a conservative Protestant Church or the Catholic Church or some other church), the nondenominational churches in the USA are still growing much faster that the WT's JW "church". But yes in the USA, Christians (as a percentage of the total population) are now declining, likewise in the USA in regards to Protestant Christianity as whole.
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27
So where oh where did Judge Rutherford come up with JW theology?
by Terry inbits of unreported history that may be of casual interest… as to doctrinal origins.
sykes was one-of-a-kind in the pentecostal movement, but he was considered quite a maverick who went his own way with heretical teachings repugnant to the pentecostal faith.. joshua sykes’ congregation was integrated, unlike pastor russell’s public speeches/sermons where blacks and whites both could attend, but only in separate sections--sykes's members were sitting side by side in the pentecostal church.
this was considered dangerous and inflammatory at the time.. pentecostal preacher joshua sykes practiced racial and gender "integration" as early as 1908 -- having both african-american and female assistant preachers, staffers, and members.
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Disillusioned JW
I think it said the Great Pyramid was God's (or Jehovah's) stone witness, but maybe one time it specifically said "the Great Pyramid was Jehovah's witness".
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169
Are the statistics out yet?
by slimboyfat inisn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?
or have they stopped publishing it?
did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?
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Disillusioned JW
slimboyfat, regarding churches in the USA, while nearly all of the denominational churches are declining in membership (according to polls, such as by Pew Research), in my community I get the impression that a number of so-called nondenominational churches and a number of individual 'Bible Church' nondenominational congregations are growing in the USA. Furthermore, there are news articles saying that many nondenominational churches are growing.
See https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2022/august/nondenominational-growth-mainline-protestant-decline-survey.html (called "Nondenominational Churches Are Adding Millions of Members. Where Are They Coming From?") which says the following.
"Over the last decade Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, and every other Protestant family has declined except for those who say they are nondenominational.
The 2020 US Religion Census, due out later this year, tallied 4,000 more nondenominational churches than in 2010, and nondenominational church attendance rose by 6.5 million during that time.
At the same time, mainline Protestant Christianity is collapsing following five decades of declines. In the mid-1970s, nearly a third of Americans were affiliated with denominations like the United Methodist Church, the United Church of Christ, and the Episcopal Church. But now, just one in ten Americans are part of the mainline tradition.
In 2021, nondenominational Protestants in the United States outnumbered mainline Protestants. But what is causing this tremendous shift in the church landscape?
... What is driving the growth of nondenominational churches? While in the past it resulted from a significant portion of individuals leaving a mainline tradition, now it looks like nondenominational congregations are increasing by taking in people who were raised Catholic—which is about a quarter of the general population."
The demographic in the USA of the decline of denominational churches and the rapid growth rate of nondenominational churches is a a problem for the WT since the WT's JW religion is very sectarian (claiming they are the only religion approved by God) and is very controlling (with the control being held by one governing body at a central location, rather than being held by each congregation independently).
See also https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2022/november/religion-census-nondenominational-church-growth-nons.html (called "Nondenominational’ Is Now the Largest Segment of American Protestant") which says the following.
'Call it the rise of the nons.
Not the “nones,” who have commanded attention for years, as the number of Americans who don’t identify with a specific religious tradition has grown from just 5 percent during the Cold War to around 30 percent today. This is the nons—nondenominational Christians, people who shake off organizational affiliations, disassociate from tradition, and free themselves from established church brands.
The number of nondenominational churches has surged by about 9,000 congregations over the course of a decade, according to new decennial data released by the US Religion Census. Little noticed, they have been quietly remaking the religious landscape.
There are now five times more nondenominational churches than there are Presbyterian Church (USA) congregations. There are six times more nondenominational churches than there are Episcopal. And there are 3.4 million more people in nondenominational churches than there are in Southern Baptist ones.
If “nondenominational” were a denomination, it would be the largest Protestant one, claiming more than 13 percent of churchgoers in America.
... Nondenominational Christians don’t show up in the polls that sample and survey American religion, because people don’t think of “nondenominational” as an identity. They are more likely just to say “Christian,” or perhaps “Protestant.” If prompted, they might specify whether or not they think of themselves as evangelical or born again. But few if any say “nondenominational.”
The US Religion Census catches the growing number of nondenominational Christians, however, because it is an actual census, with teams of people counting congregations and collecting reports of the number of people attending particular churches.... in 2020, the US Religious Census team found 44,319 nondenominational congregations, with an estimated 21 million adherents. That makes nondenominational Christians the first or second largest group of Protestants in America, depending on how one counts. The Southern Baptists have about 7,000 more churches, but 3.4 million fewer people.'
'The lead researcher, Scott Thumma, ... one of a few experts and close observers who have noted the nondenominational growth over the past decade, said he thinks there are several factors driving what he describes as “individualism at the congregational level.”
It’s an expression of “organizational individualism that parallels personal individualism,” he said, and allows churches to slip out from under the burden of some cultural baggage.
“It is an evangelistic advantage,” Thumma said. “A potential attender at a nondenominational church doesn’t have cultural expectations of what they might find inside the way they do if the brand is Episcopalian or Assemblies of God or Southern Baptist. Rather, the visitor has to experience the worship firsthand.”
... The growth of the nons has also been supported by an ecosystem of publishers and parachurch organizations that produce nondenominational religious content. Historically, denominations supplied churches with music, Sunday school curricula, and Bible study curricula. They also arranged mission and service trips. But that has changed, and congregations are more likely now to shop around.
Today even some denominational churches end up being “functionally nondenominational,” Thumma said, “defecting in place or quiet quitting … and crafting their own local brand.”
... Whatever the explanation, it’s clear the nons are growing, just like the nones. And in the coming years, it’s likely more Protestant churches will leave denominational names behind.'
These days some of the devout church going Christians (especially ones attending nondenominational churches/congregations) I personally know tell me, when I ask what their religion is, they have no religion though they also say they are Christian.They also say that Christianity is not a religion (and that religion is about rule or rituals), but rather a relationship with Jesus Christ.
You are correct in saying the following. "It’s not true that you needed 10 hours to count as a publisher in 2000 - one hour was enough." The year 2001, or so, was the last year I was an active JW (except for attending the Memorial and local circuit assemblies, or local district conventions, up through the year 2007 or so). But even though, the religion had the policy (one which I think an elder told me) that if hours in a given month with less than one whole hour, then the JW could roll over the fractional hour into the following month's total. I did that during several months. Thus, if in one month I had 0.25 hours of field service time and if in the next month I had 0.75 hours of time, then I reported zero hours for one month an one whole hour for the next month.
slimboyfat, what do you think about my post (on page 15 of this topic thread) regarding how I think it would be feasible for the WT to change its disassociation policy?
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169
Are the statistics out yet?
by slimboyfat inisn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?
or have they stopped publishing it?
did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?
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Disillusioned JW
Reservations, what if the WT continues having a disassociation policy but removes the shunning of the disassociated ones, and instead says that such ones are to treated the same way as worldly people are to be treated (instead of saying as disfellowshipped ones are treated), with the exception of still requiring JWs to avoid discussing spiritual matters with disassociated ones? Would that avoid extensive lawsuits? The change would likely result in many people (especially those with an inactive status) officially leaving the religion (by declaring themselves disassociated), but the WT might like that since it would mean that most of the unbelievers would be out of the congregations/organization. That would increase the percentage of people in the congregations/organization who are true believers and it would dramatically reduce the number of those classified as inactive.
The exodus of numerous nonbelievers from the congregations/organization would not likely hurt the WT financially since the nonbelievers probably are not making financial contributions to the WT anyway.